a the reaction was lightning fast and furious as in angry. republicans charging the white house with breaking a promise to let a bipartisan commission do its work. >> leaking this out does set things in the wrong direction. this particular move, very counter productive. >> this is the president torpedoing his own plan and shows me he is really not serious. there are many people that think democrats by up these ideas as wedge issues and don't want to pass them because they no longer have the republicans to blame. >> that's what the new chief of staff had to deal with in the first round of sunday show interviews suggesting the plan is only a backup. >> we are doing exactly what we said we will do which is we'll be prepared in the event that the bipartisan talks going on the hill which were aggressively supporting if those do not work out, then we'll have an option that we'll be ready to put out there. >> i want to bring in editor in

chief of reason magazine, matt welch. good morning. thanks for coming in. how do we define leak? the white house seems to be suggesting, matt, they didn't leak this, this wasn't an official plan, but what's going on. >> i think a lot of this is a parliamentary maneuvering on both sides. the president wants to keep the political pressure on both the negotiators and the republican party and wants to set the terms of the debate on his own ground. republicans want to say we're working over here and trying to get something done and they want to have their own emphasis which is going to be more on border security than the president's plan. some is smoke and fire that far debate. another part is immigration reform is hard and there are different, strong differences of opinions on those two sides and other sides and this reflects that. >> we shouldn't be surprised people like marco rubio coming out against it. if actually proceed poed the

president's bill will be dead on arrival in congress leaving us with unsecured borders and a broken legal immigration system for years to come. i mean. sure, republicans will shoot down anything that came from the white house anyway, is that all part of this? >> it absolutely is. in a way, whether or not the white house meant to leak this or not, they wanted this out there and in a way it gets republicans a lot of cover. they can shoot down the force for ray and that gives them a lot of room to work with congress and come up with their own deal without looking like they're cooperating with the president f he has his eyes on 2016, he does not want to look like he was hand-in-hand with the president on this very important legislative issue >> one of the senators that is working part of this bipartisan group is senator chuck schumer. let me play what he had to say. >> we talked to senator rubio and he is fully on board with our process and i am very hopeful that in march we will have a bipartisan bill. i am happy with the president.

he has given us the space, and i am optimistic we can get something done. >> he is saying he is happy with the president, seems to be suggesting what you are suggesting, this is just a preliminary to this battle coming up, but could it delay things? are republicans really mad? >> i don't know if it is going to delay those things. the question is the one that rapd paul proposed, are we talking about something where the democrats like this as an issue or are they trying to get something done? republicans fell behind the eight ball. i think they're in the worst position leverage wise. they're truly panicked about the vote totals and they feel a pressure to get something done and the base is a little sketchy about and the question is how serious is the president and the democratic party about actually trying to get ideal signed? >> it is interesting. if you put the plans side by side, you see there are some commonalities between the president's plan and the senate bipartisan plan. shorter path to citizenship for the so-called dreamers, the young students, and enhanced border security and the big

difference it seems and we don't know what the president's plans are for the guest worker program and future flow. the demographic has obviously changed. does something almost have to get done for both sides here? >> yes, something does have to get done if not this congress then the next congress. the demographics as you point out are too stark. the hispanic coplation is growing too fast for the country not to do something. as matt point out, republicans are in a pickle on this. the base of their party does not want to see republicans being very weak on immigration. >> let me bring in peter giago. >> good morning. >> you obviously have a big interest in this. do you think the white house should push for with this plan or back off and let congress take the lead?

>> i think most people don't really care where the idea comes from. i think they want action. they want something to happen. they're tired of the prolonged conversations and frankly anything that starts a spark that gets people moving in the right direction i think is a good thing. >> you have heard republicans like marco rubio significant this plan would make the problem worse and a big issue for the gop is they don't see that it addresses border security. is something missing here? >> i think border security, you know, i represent one of the safest cities in the country, so i think there is probably a difference of opinion on whether more border security is needed. for me personally sometimes it turns out to be economic development. if you put more folks along the border in places like presidio and del rio and eagle pass, small towns on the border, you

are helping the local economy and buying at stores and contributing and paying taxes so it is not necessarily a bad thing, but i think that people are a little tired of tying immigration to border security in many places. >> so let me just ask you more specifically because the republican criticism is the president hasn't done enough. the white house suggestion is that they in fact have done more for border security than has been done before and we know about the numbers of deportations. has the white house done enough? >> i think the white house has done quite a bit and frankly in today's political environment the truth is you always have to find something to complain about, something to throw rocks at, and border security just happens to be it for the time being or the conversation about the white house's essential a statement of principles, so i think in the current environment something is going to get done. you can tell by all the activity. you can tell by the fact that tempers are high right now and all of that bodes well for the final passage of the immigration

bill this session of congress. >> tempers, tension, clearly high and it is not always just about the specifics of the plan. let me play for you a clip of what senator mccain had to say on "meet the press." >> we're working together, republicans and democrats. by the way, he's had no communications with republicans on the issue unlike the previous four presidents i have dealt with. >> he is not happy about barack obama. he says he is not reached out to republicans, and what role do you think the president can and could most effectively play in all of this? >> i think right now he is playing it well. i think -- >> it does seem like they're saying he needs to stay out and let congress do its work and on the other side they're complaining he is not reaching out. >> that's the whole thing in politics today. it is lose-lose. as i indicated earlier you have to find something to throw rocks at and complain about. the truth is i think he is praying it well. he is keeping some distance, and

at the same time he stirs the pot when he thinks it knees to be stirred and certainly there is a real legitimate need to do immigration reform and i think he is aware of that. i think he wants to see something passed and he will do what it takes to push congress along to finally get there. >> understanding you're new to this process as a freshman congressman, give me your -- >> 40 days of seniority, i think. >> give me your gut, though. what are the chances something big gets done this session of congress? >> i think immigration reform is done this session of congress. i think from the perspective of both parties, it is time. it has been about for a long time and i think the republicans saw what happened with the latino electorate last time in and places like texas that's a really significant thing and i think there is a real desire on the part of both parties to get something done and get something done fairly rapidly. >> congresswoman, come back when

you have 60 or 70 days under your belt. >> thank you. >> appreciate the time. it is interesting to hear the different talk about what the president can and should do. for somebody like marco rubio who obviously is going to be a big player, do you think he should just invite the folks to the white house and have a conversation? >> this has to happen and bills originate in congress. that has to em nature from congress eventually. the problem is this is just the way politics and deals are getting done now in front of camera and people are trying to make issues out of it. another problem is this is comprehensive. the reformers made the deal of it has to be comprehensive immigration reform. the bigger the deal, the bigger the bill, the harder it is to get things passed and the harder it is for everyone to swallow bits of it. you could chop this up into smaller parts and get something done, recognize this is kind of a prohibition problem because we have prohibitions on what kind of immigrants can come in. if you increase the pool of immigrants that can come in

legally, a lot of this problem goes away and it is i think a shame both sides aren't focusing more gist on that piece of it which doesn't have to get into the other ones. >> what are the chances this doesn't become comprehensive immigration reform that everyone says they want it all done and it is smaller bits and pieces which does seem to be in many instances how congress works these days. >> it does but i don't think it is likely. i think congress wants to put a nice big blue ribbon on it and say we passed a big package dealing with immigration reform. congress has not been very productive the last couple terms, and pardon me, mostly because of the partisan makeup but in terms of incremental legislation like that, small pieces, something for border security, something to give undocumented workers a pathway to citizenship, i just don't see it passing in pieces like that. i think it has to be a big package with a bow on it. >> when we talked about the demographics and we all know and have talked ad nauseam about the numbers from the last election,

how much of whether this dwets donor not will be driven by that simple fact, that political fact as opposed to the knowledge that we needed to do something about this for a while? >> both. it is politics. it is not a pretty business. people are in it to try to get re-elected and republicans now are in a total panic about their prospects as a party going forward if they're going to be seen as the party of old white dudes, so they are motivated to make a deal right now and again open question is do democrats want to make that deal or do they want to have the issue. >> people perceived as leaders on the issue who may have presidential ambitions, that's something else altogether that plays into this. >> absolutely. i think you can't under estimate how integral marco rubio is to the process. if he drops out of the bipartisan negotiations, i think the package is absolutely done. he is so important. republicans have really put him up as a pedestal to be the guide throughout all of this. let's remember in the near

future republicans don't need to win the hispanic vote. they just don't need to lose it as badly. that's the reason why they don't need to be leaders on the issue necessarily but go along and make it look like they're doing something to help solve the problem. >> thank you for coming in. even though a vote won't appear for at least another week, chuck hagel's fight to become the next defense secretary should end in confirmation. senator john mccain, a vocal hagel critic says they've had their say and republicans shouldn't hold things up any longer. >> we will have a vote when we get back and i am confident that senator hagel will probably have the votes necessary to be confirmed as the secretary of defense. we have an obligation of advice and consent. i don't intend to give those up when other senators continue to have reasonable questions, and i mean reasonable. >> you're not a yes vote for your old friend? >> no. i don't believe he is qualified. i don't believe that we should hold up his nomination any

further. >> coming up, we'll discuss chuck haggle's nomination with someone that's been through the process, former energy secretary bill richardson that just got back from a trip to north korea. we'll be right back.

the united nations security council is meeting to talk about north korea and what to do after the country carried out the third underground nurk lar guest. let me bring in bill richardson that just returned from a trip to north korea and u.s. ambassador to the u.n. and former energy secretary. good to see you, governor. good morning >> thank you, chris. nice to be with you. >> i am wondering if you got any indication when you were there they were thinking about doing this. >> well, we d we tried to persuade them against further launches and nuclear tests, but

they basically said that in response to the security council restrictions and sanctions that were imposed before, that they were going to proceed with this test, and we tried to say to them you're going to be isolated. you're not going to get the advantages of the internet and google and eric schmidt, the ceo of google was with me who was treated like a rock star there. so what's happening is what the north koreans did was basically send a signal that they're going to continue to be isolated and they're picking weapons of development over economic development and that's unfortunate. >> the white house issued a statement exactly to your point saying we have warned north korea about the damaging consequences, the further isolation that's caused by the failure to live up to international obligation. each time we see one of these nuclear tests, it further isolates the country of north

korea. as you well know, even china told them not to go ahead with another test, so i guess what more sanctions do anything? what can the u.n., the international community do? >> well, there has to be a pay back for what north korea just did with this underground nuclear test. yes, more sanctions, but the key is going to be china china really has not done as much as they should in terms of curbing food and fuel. i think they'll be up against the wall and they probably will take that step. i think as you said, chris, after these additional sanctions, what next? we can't continue to isolate north korea because they have nuclear weapons. they have a million and a half men in arms. they have missiles. they're a danger in northeast asia. so what needs to happen is a new kind of diplomacy, new kind of dialog. i think south korea, the new leadership in china and south

korea in the region needs to step up with the united states and develop a credible diplomatic strategy, one that involves north korea saying to them, look, this nuclear path is going to be totally against your interests. let's find ways to at least lower the tension. what you don't want is a country with nuclear weapons agitating the way it is, but i have dealt with them for years and i have succeeded in negotiating with them. you still don't know where they're coming from. they don't think like we do. they're unpredictable. it is uncertain how much power this new leader has from his father. it looks like he is following his father's path but there is a little glimmer of hope. he was educated in the western countries. he moves as a political leader a lot better than his father did. you see him reaching out to his

people, talking about helping the economy and doing something about poverty. maybe we shouldn't shut it out totally. after these sanctions at the u.n. we should say, okay, let's talk. what is it that we can do to seek common ground? >> so many in the u.s. on this new foreign policy team obviously we already have the confirmation of john kerry. let me switch gears a little bit and ask you about chuck hagel as somebody who was in the cabinet and who knows what the confirmation process is like. what do you make of how this has been going? >> this is incredible. i was confirmed by the senate twice as u.n. ambassador, secretary of energy, and usually here is the differences. national security team, secretary of state or defense, are generally confirmed without any opposition. this has been a tradition with presidents. in the hagel case, look, it is important the question on policy

and i know senator hagel was questioned on israel, on iran. i think that's legitimate, but some senators went as far as getting personal and not just personal but unsubstantiated charges on the floor of the senate in hearings. that's never happened. i think that's a function of a tea party that is still a major player within the republican party circles and i don't think the republican's strategy is to stop them. so that's unfortunate, and that's going to mean more problems for further cabinet nominees that the president still hasn't sent up and just this idea that bipartisanship is going to be hurt dramatically is probably going to continue, and that's terrible for the country. >> former governor bill richardson, great to talk to you always. thanks so much. >> thank you. thank you, chris. >> in the meantime venezuela's president returned home early

today after more than two months of cancer treatment in cuba. nbc news has learned more details about his health and that they're expected to be released later today and then later this week. in several messages on twitter chavez thanked fidel and raúl castro and says he will continue treatment in venezuela. this picture among the first photos released friday showing him smiling with his daughters. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story. before you begin an aspirin regimen. have given way to sleeping. tossing and turning where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta®(eszopiclone) can help you get there. like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving, or engaging in other activities while asleep, without remembering it the next day, have been reported.

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to politics now and new details on exactly how former illinois congresswoman jesse jackson junior reportedly spent $750,000 in campaign funds. a large chunk of it apparently bought michael jackson and bruce lee memorabilia. new jersey's bob menendez in the hot seat. menendez is faces allegations of improper travel in the dominican

republic. the president traveled as well to florida for a brief vacation. he went golfing with tiger woods always no pictures were released and the president set to arrive at the white house shortly. speaking of the white house, possible future presidential contenders on the air waves sunday. newark mayor cory booker says he is clearly interested in running for senate and kentucky senator rand paula nounsed he would only run for president, quote, if it were to win. florida senator marco rubio's super pac raised more than $100,000 from water bottle sales. "snl" cashed in on the state of the union rebuttle explaining why he took that big gulp mid-speech. >> there are hot lights on you. the room isn't vent late. you're wearing your lucky burlap unitard under the suit and you do what anyone would do, you lunge to the side all the while holding awkward eye contact with the camera and you take a drink

from the tiniest bottle of water anyone has ever seen. >> speaking of awkward moments, how often have we watched presenters at big awards shows fumble to open the envelope? well, don't expect those moments at this weekend's oscars. the company that makes the envelopes has reengineered them to be, quote, dummy proof. "vanity fair" has a crazy article about it. it is today's must read and it is up on the facebook page at facebook/jansingco. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation,

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turn away from drilling in the arctic and to regulate smoke stacks and refineries across the country so they're installing modern pollution controls. >> i am joined by democratic strategist and co-founder of purple strategies steve mcmahon and republican strategist chris wilson. good morning, guys. >> good morning. >> the president has a very tough political decision to make. he promised to do more to attack climate change in the state of the union and on the campaign trail and also promised to do more on jobs and transcanada that has the pipeline claims it would create 20,000 new jobs while some of the president's biggest supporters support the plan, so you got them on one side, steve, the environmentalists on the other side. what's he do? >> i think what first thing he should do is make a decision quickly because this is -- there is pressure building in the environmental community for the president not to do this, and i think there is also pressure on the other side from the unions which are another important constituency of the president to do this and so this is a

decision going to make someone unhappy so no reason to drag it out. he ought to make the decision. >> bill mckibben, the founder of 350.org says approving the pipeline would be akin to lighting a carbon bomb that would cause irreparable harm and you have republicans like senator ted cruise that expressed skepticism climate change even exists. does that kind of talk actually hurt supporters? >> i don't think it is relevant. steve pointed out and i agree, this is about jobs primarily and the president has to make a decision about where does he side here? does he side with radical environmentalists or with the aflcio and other unions that recognize this would create 20,000 middle income wage earning jobs and that's -- >> let me doubleback for a minute. what is radical about the fact they point out the earth's nine warmest years ever have occurred since 2000, that we know this

kind of oil causes more carbon dioxide emissions and a dirtier process than other ways of getting oil, so why do you say that? >> well, it is not a dirtier process. it has gone through three separate independent environmental constituted auto he is that show the entire pipeline is safe and half already in existence. the choice we're making here is do we import oil or bring in oil from canada or we bring it in from the middle east? if you put oil from canada coming into the united states versus coming in from the middle east and say that somehow the middle east is safer, i would say that's an absolutely insane idea and this is really the way in which we can create jobs, make energy cheaper, and protect our national security. >> this is another part of the calculation is the political calculation, our relationship with canada, and i don't think most people would disagree. we want to buy less oil from opec countries and more from other sources. on the other hand you saw some of those environmentalists chaining themselves to fences and this is the first time that

the sierra club has ever done this kind of of civil disobedience. is this a defining moment of the presidency for barack obama and what about what chris says? sgr for a lot of environmentsalists it is a defining moment. remember, there was a rally, and it was a climate change rally. we're talking here about the keystone pipeline which is a subset of the climate change argument. you kind of got to pull these things apart. i think the president in the state of the union -- >> yes, but also i think there is general agreement, don't you think, steve, the chances of climate change and legislation getting through the congress are pretty small, and so the reason they're focusing so much on xl, not just they think it is really important but they think it is the thing that might be able to get done this year. >> let's look at the facts. xl is a presidential executive action that could have a significant environmental impact and i think what the president did in the state of the union is said i am going to try to get congress to move on environmental protection but if i couldn't get congress to cooperate i will take whatever

steps i can take on my own independently. with respect to greenhouse gases, there are a lot of things he can could. keystone pipeline is one of them. as chris points out we'll get the oil from somewhere. labor in the environmental community on this issue are split. so he is going to make somebody unhappy. both were very, very involved in the campaign. he owes both to each of those individual constituencies, the labor community has been make ago lot of noise on this and the environmental community basically for four years has been asked to wait and they're tired of waiting and looking for action. if the president can't do this for them, i think he needs to and probably will quickly be looking at other things he can do that will make the environmental community a little happier. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> a programming note. tomorrow we'll be speaking with actress and activist daryl hannah who has been arrested several times including just last week fighting the keystone pipeline. daryl hannah tomorrow on jansing & co. also making news this morning, country singer mindy

mcdecreedy has died after an apparent suicide. she struggled with substance abuse for years and gave her children up to foster care after the death of her long time boyfriend just a month ago. her ex-boyfriend and the father of her 6-year-old talked to "the today show." >> didn't come as a major shock because she has just been battling demons for so long and of course i was around her when she attempted suicide twice, so i knew it was in her. i feel for her mother and her family and especially my son. >> news of the death spread quickly on twitter with major country stars including carrie underwood and natalie mains paying their respects online. the agent for olympian oscar pistorius has canceled his future races. he is in a south african jail accused of killing his model girlfriend reeva steenkamp on valentine's day. police sources say she was first shot in pistorius' bedroom and

then through the bathroom door. pistorius says it was an accident and he thought she was an intruder. he is due in court tomorrow for a bail hearing. with the tenth anniversary of the invasion of iraq one month away, a new documentary hosted by rachel maddow details how faulty intelligence was held up as hard fact in an effort to lead america into war. here is a clip. meeting notes from the afternoon of 9/11 show donald rumsfeld tasking a top aid to find the best info fast. good enough to hit saddam hussein. he asks the aide to get evidence from wolf wits of a saddam connection with ubl. osama bin laden. >> we all looked at each other like what are they talking about. who the hell, saddam hussein? osama bin laden hates him. there is no connection between saddam hussein and al qaeda. >> the documentary, selling the

iraq war, airs 9 p.m. eastern time tonight on msnbc. wall street is closed for the president's day holiday, the s&p 500 coming off a seven week winning streak, the best in more than two years and also continuing a streak much to the dismay of drivers, gas prices. the cost of a fill-up has climbed 29 days in a row now. the national average up 14 cents just this past week to 3.73 a gallon. a month ago we were paying 43 cents less. call it the bourbon backlash. makers mark is reversing a decision to cut the amount of alcohol in the bottles of famous whiskey after thousands of complaints makers mark had planned to lower the amount from 45 to 42% because of a supply shortage, and in a tweet the company said, though, you spoke, we listened. this president's day the website 24/7 wall street.com analyzed the net worth of every president based on 2010 dollars. here are the five richest presidents. the largest landowner in his

virginia county, james madison, number 5, $101 million. andrew jackson married into wealth. he was worth 119 million. at number 3, theodore roosevelt born into a prominent family with a trust fund and thomas jefferson worth 212 million. his father left him 3,000 acres and several dozen slaves. and the richest president ever, george washington, $525 million, his salary was 2% of the u.s. budget back in 1789. the only current president on the top 20 list bill clinton whose net worth is estimated at 55 million. we'll be right back. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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premiers tonight and delves into the private and public lives of first ladys from marsha washington to michelle obama. here is a preview. >> i think to the extent that this feels natural to me at any level and i would never have thought that living in the white house and being first lady would feel natural, it is because i try to make it me. i try to bring a little bit of michelle obama into this, but at the same time respecting and valuing the tradition that is america's. >> joining me is mark farkus executive producer and the historian that worked on the series and featured in it. good to see both of you. >> thank you, chris. >> why this? why now? what do you want people to understand about the role of first lady that they probably didn't know before? >> i think you take a look at someone like michelle obama and

the recent first ladies and out in front of the camera and espousing phenomenas, and you take a look at abigail adams lobbying her husband for the rights of women and saying that if you do not keep in mind the ladies taking a look at the declaration of independence and also the constitution, we may foment a rebellion. they're very influential over time and a lot of the names lost to history so it is a different perspective. >> one of the things i find interesting, rosalynn, is some first ladys really embrace the role and others went kicking and screaming and laura bush talks about she told her husband he could go into politics as long as she ever had to give a spiech. were there first ladies that wished it would all go away. >> i am sure there were. i focused on the ones that make the best of it, however. >> who are they? >> abigail adams is one. mary todd lincoln is another.

florence harding in the 20th century. >> it is interesting. in the movie "lincoln" we see a mary todd lincoln that seems to be more conflicted about being first lady and talks about how difficult it is to live in that house at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> well, remember, a movie is fiction. that's one of the problems. even though i like the way the movie portrayed her, but they didn't know the behind the scenes lobbying that she did. she was an abolitionist, believe it or not, and she was perhaps president lincoln's biggest influence on abolishing slavery. >> and i am also curious about that, mark, what you found. that's also been a modern day controversy how much influence first ladies have on their husbands. should they be will confidant?

should they be talking policy? we know what happened to hillary clinton when she tried to take on health care. we certainly saw nancy reagan take a lot of hits how close she was to her husband. what did you find out about that and those relationships and particularly influence? >> well, when you think about it, there may only be one person that comes to a president without someone else's agenda in mind. that is the first lady. over the years they have had tremendous influence over their husbands and they are their confidants and political partners. rosalind carter was attending cabinet meetings and nancy reagan, some say she had a role in firing the ef choo chief of staff so it goes back as well. >> let me ask you finally i thought there was a fascinating poll c-span commissioned. 44% thought first ladies should get a salary for what she do. what can you tell us about the significant role besides confidant and maybe adviser that first ladies have played over

the years? >> they often turned out to be fundraisers, campaign managers. they also had special projects that they liked. i think that began back with dolley madison and continued on into the present. that institutionalization of the first lady's role has grown and developed over time. so in the late 20th century for at least starting in the late 20th century the first lady comes into place knowing that she has to champion something and most of them have. i think that's very significant i don't know if they should be paid for that but they do do a lot. >> i have to say i have only seen the clips. it looks absolutely fascinating. rosalind taylor penn and mark fark us, thaus so much and good luck with the program. >> my pleasure. >> thank you very much, chris. >> today's sweet of the day back to the top story from the

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this morning pope benedict and a group of cardinals started a week long spiritual retreat with questions still unanswered about when the next pope will be chosen. yesterday massive crowds flocked to the vatican, an estimated 100,000 people packing st. peter's square for one of the pope's final appearances as the leader of the catholic church. >> thank you for the prayers and support you have shown me these days. >> benedict also appeared to criticize vatican infighting and recently leaked documents paint a picture of a dysfunctional vatican bureaucracy plagued by turf wars and allegations of corruption. let's bring in vatican analyst,

senior fellow at the ethic and policy center. i feel launch in after saying good morning because i know there is a little bit of ai delay and i want to start with these reports of power struggles among the hierarchy at the vatican. here is what the pope said. the church which is mother and teacher calls on all its members to renew their spirit, turn back firmly towards god and ignore pride and egoism to live in love. you recently wrote an op-ed that the next pope needs to straighten out the disastrous condition of the roman curia. how bad is it? >> these are important issues and it is important to discuss them in a serious way. this is not the set of dan brown novels. this is a real place, a real constitution with real people. there are serious problems. there is what one italian scholar of church history, a good friend of mine called a culture of corruption throughout

italy itself. that has a tendency to seep inside the vatican under certain circumstances. the next pope has to make sure that this rather small and in many respects efficient bureaucracy turns into an ever more efficient instrument for his role as a pastor, a teacher and an evangelist. >> from what you know, george, how much did this play into the pope's decision? we know he feels that he didn't have the spiritual or physical strength to go on, and a lot of people have criticized what's going on inside the vatican, whether it is just administrative or in ways that it dealt with crisis like the prooez sex abuse scandal. was this a factor in his ultimate decision to step down? >> i don't think pope ben didn't is walking away from a problem he can't solve. he really does believe he does

not have the energy, the physical strength to give the church a service it deserves and in a sense he is clearing the way fwor his successor to take up the task of reforming the vatican bureaucracy in the future and discussions on what that might mean and who can do precisely that are under way as we speak. >> to the point of who will get this awesome responsibility, i get asked all the time and i know you do when is the conclave? when are the cardinals going to meet? what are the latest indications, george? >> i still think we're going to get started with the conclave or the closure of the conclave before march 15th. >> i know you know new york's cardinal timothy dolan well and in typical style of him when he was asked about rumors that he could become the first american pope, his response was, quote, i

would say those are only from people smoking marijuana. do you agree with his assessment? is there virtually no assessment that timothy dolan could be the next pope? >> i think this is in fact going to be a rather wide open conclave, chris, in which nationality is not going to mean anything. the super power veto so-called that was sought to make an american pope impossible, i don't think will be in play this time. the cardinals are going to be looking for is a man who can bring the gos spell to the world in an effective and compelling way. >> george, always good to see you standing there with the beautiful back drop of st. peters. that will wrap up this hour of jansing and company. i am chris jansing. thomas roberts is up next. >> good morning, everybody. the agenda next hour, more reaction from the president's leaked rough draft. marco rubio throwing cold water

on that plan and calling it doa. why would the white house risk the plan being leaked before it is ready? joe garcia will join me and ted cruz is taking his tactics to d.c. and the everything is big inner texas approach, is that the best way to make a name for himself? country music star mindy mccreedy takes her own life. andrea recently interviewed the troubled singer. her final words in the next hour. [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life.

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